Tag: homophobia

Questions and Answers: a conversation about privilege, fandom, representation, and boundaries

Some weeks ago, I reblogged a gifset of Mark Hamill talking about gay fans headcanoning Luke as gay, and expressing his support for them feeling free to interpret his character that way if they wanted to. I replied, talking about the importance of this kind of acceptance by a creator of fan interpretation. The original post is here, but I’ll duplicate my comments here for context:

He gets it, gets why seeing yourself in a character is important, and that is so rare. Too many creators and authors and actors get wrapped up in what their intent was when creating/writing/performing, and don’t see that the moment the work is out there, it’s open source for head canons, interpretations, fanworks and meta. This is all the more important for people of marginalised groups. So of course Luke is gay, if you read him that way. The power is YOURS not Mark’s, and he’s not so egocentric that he misses that. This should be far more common than it is, this generous acceptance of fan interpretation and evolution of canon.

And, I didn’t think any more about it, until yesterday morning, when I noticed I had a PM from a total stranger who’d seen my comment on a reblog somewhere. They asked some questions, I formulated a reply, and then we had a conversation which I think is important because it covers the intersection of straight privilege, the desire and push for diverse representation, and respecting the boundary between creators and fans.

I will forenote this with the fact that this conversation is being posted completely with the consent of the person involved. I have removed all identifying information as to the user, fandoms and ships mentioned in this discussion and anything else I think is too identifiable. If you think you can identify specifics, please do not add them to tags or reblogs or badger me for confirmation. This is purely posted because the discussion is applicable to most if not all fandoms, and might help to enlighten those who don’t understand the nuances of fandom (and transformative works and headcanons) for minorities but WANT to understand.

anon:Hello 🙂 I love what Mark says and I agree with him that it is perfectly ok to have an active fantasy life about a character. But I’m not positive I agree with everything you said in your comment and I’d like to ask you something:

If I watch a show that is based on two gay characters and I want one of the characters to be straight and I ship them with another character in a heterosexual relationship – that’s okay? Even if they are written as gay, but I don’t see them as gay?

Also, is it okay for me to push that agenda on the actor who plays him or her and say, oh but you’re NOT gay in the show, you’re really straight – you just don’t realize it? Would I be welcome with this interpretation or would I be considered homophobic for completely denying these characters are gay?

I don’t believe that interpretation by an audience should reach the level that the artist is forced to completely deny their intent to make said audience happy. Then it is like fascism or some form of rule that allows one section of the population to decide but the other section better watch itself. If art is truly free, then the audience should not attempt to control the artist by intimidation – it should at least be polite and also allow said artist his or her interpretation.

Just up late and sleepless – not trying to offend but to understand if there is a double standard at play here.

iamshadow21: The difference is, queer people and other minorities are denied representation. We have to look into the subtext to find characters like ourselves. When someone changes a queer character to straight, the situation is different because straight people have all the power, all the representation, and 99% of media is full of people exactly like them. You take a dollar from a guy with a hundred bucks, he’s probably going to be fine and not care. You take a dollar from someone who only has a dollar, you’ve stolen everything from them.

As for ‘pushing agendas’ on the actors, there’s a difference between politely asking and pushing an agenda. Agenda’s a pretty loaded word that’s been used by heterosexual people terrified of queer empowerment and civil rights for decades – we have an ‘agenda’, we want to ‘steal’ their children from them and convert them and make them satan worshippers and paedophiles. The fact that you used the word agenda when talking about forcing an orientation headcanon on an actor was probably an unconscious choice on your part, but you should be mindful that it is a word with a history and is a word still used in the present to fearmonger and oppress a minority that a large amount of heterosexuals would prefer would cease to exist. They would literally prefer we died, and if you think that’s exaggeration, just look at the protest movement in the early years of HIV/AIDS. Google Act Up and the ‘die-ins’ held just trying to get powerful straight people to give a shit, if you want to educate yourself futher.

I’m of the opinion that with a lot of fandom stuff, you shouldn’t cross the streams. Don’t be creepy, don’t do or say anything that might make the creators uncomfortable. This includes forcing a headcanon on them in the manner you suggested, be it gay, straight or otherwise. But asking a polite question about a character’s orientation, a character that doesn’t have a romance onscreen? I don’t see a problem with that.

As for your paralleling the desire and push for representation with art-crushing fascism, well. Wow. May I refer you to the first paragraph. We are awash in straight representation. Having gay characters and headcanons doesn’t diminish the plethora of them. But taking a canonically gay character and straightwashing them? You’re taking the dollar from the guy who only has one. As for attempts to force a creator to deny their intent, may I refer you to the paragraph on fandom and boundaries. There are, however, times when it is appropriate to push for greater diversity and representation in our media. For us to shout, because otherwise, creators forget we exist. They default to white/cis/hetero, because that’s the factory settings and unless there’s a vocal segment calling out for something else, that’s what we get. Yet another white bread sandwich, when all we want is one fruit salad.

If you really want to ship a canonically gay character with a person of another gender, I’m not going to flat out say you can’t. The joy of fandom is that your brain is a free place where you can imagine whatever the hell you want. You can create stuff based off it, too, though you might get shit for doing it, because when we get representation, it matters so much and we don’t like it being wiped out like it’s an inconvenience. One way to make your ship work without erasing the queerness? Consider whether your headcanon works if the character is bisexual. If gay people have a single dollar, bisexuals have fifty cents, and they mean you can have your ship without praying the gay away.

anon: Everything you said makes total sense and if there is one thing I wish for is that there is more representation and diversity so it’s not necessary to take a show that is written straight and look for subtext.

Apologies for using the word “agenda”. I wasn’t using it derogatorily against the gay community but just using it for lack of a better word that I couldn’t pull out of my head at 2 in the morning!

Anyway, let me explain a little more where I’m coming from on the artistic level, and you’ll probably understand why I asked you the question in the first place.

I meant to write to you from my main blog but accidentally sent from my secondary blog. My main blog is a [fandom] blog. Do you watch or know about the show? If you do, you will know what relationship I’m referring to and which actor I’m thinking of. Since season [#] of the show, [m/m ship] has been around. I don’t ship it, but I know many who do and many are very cool with it being fanon only and realize that it has not been, nor will ever be, declared canon. Show’s creator, writers and actors (well with the exception of one who in the past has liked to tease) have declared it not to be canon. However, there is a small part of the ship who are fairly vocal, and not always in a pleasant way. I have no problem with shipping, but I do have a problem when people who are disappointed that it has not been accepted as real, bully and bash the actors who have had to answer the same questions over and over at conventions. Even members of the ship find this behavior reprehensible.

Anyway, this is where I was coming from last night when I was wondering how it would feel to have the tables turned and have heterosexuals insisting – sometimes rudely – that two gay characters were straight. Shoe on the other foot kind of thing.

I’ve seen [actor] have to field these questions and I don’t envy him the task or the inevitable backlash that he is homophobic. He’s proven in his own life he’s anything but homophobic, but because he is being honest about what he sees his character (these fans think he is bi) as after [show run length] years, he gets penalized.

Anyway, the wheels of progress grind slowly, and over the years we’ve seen more and more gay representation on shows and in movies, and like anything else, it will take time. I hope TPTB in Hollywood will see the wealth of subject matter there and start producing more and more shows to represent the LGBT community and there will be enough artistic expression to go around. xo

iamshadow21: I don’t watch [show] but I’m aware of the popular ships, both in-show and RPF, and I can tell you without any hesitation that this is a case of fandom conspiracy theories/tinhattery and bad behaviour. It’s something that crops up in a lot of fandoms where people decide that their own headcanon is the only way and try to force it on the creators rather than being content to theorise and create transformative works. This isn’t really about the characters being gay or straight, it’s about a group of fans with an altered perception of reality and canon who are ruining it for the rest, and I’m sorry you have to deal with that in your fandom, but it’s very common. From [super threatening behaviour] in [other fandom #1] to the labyrinthine weirdness of [actor ship conspiracy theory] in [other fandom #2], every fandom has their subset of people who take it too far. That the ship in this case is a gay one is a peripheral issue, though it seems to you the primary one. It isn’t about representation at all.

anon: Your last sentence: that is so, so true…a friend of mine had some fantastic tags on one of the posts that recently dealt with another outburst of this fringe group and she really nailed it on the head (she is bi):

[I have removed the tag set because I didn’t have the OP’s permission to post it, but it covered the points that 1) she supported the actor’s stance 2) the fans in question were being inappropriate, threatening, and throwing shame on the fandom in general and 3) even if the actor did concede to their version to make them shut up about it, it wouldn’t be a true victory for social justice or diversity representation in media.]

But, no matter what forms of logic we use, it really never makes a dent in the delusion.
Well, thanks for chatting with me, it was interesting and I learned some things! xo

iamshadow21: Hey, no problem. Yeah, I was just going to add – ‘straightwashing’ in retaliation won’t change this subset’s mind because they are convinced of the verity of their beliefs, and only hurt those, like me, who long to see ourselves on the screen. So just step back and leave them be. Try and enjoy your fandom and don’t engage. Engaging never works. And they’re crying homophobia, but that’s just a word to them, a ‘reason’ for their reality not being real. It’s not the actual reality we live with. I mean, sure, without homophobia and queerbaiting, [ship] might be canon. But it might not. And the idea that it’s secretly coded into the show is magical thinking.

anon: Yes, I totally get that. And I think I forget sometimes and want to lash back, but you’re right, engaging never works. I really never do.
Oh they are convinced of that!

iamshadow21: Yeah, so don’t engage.

anon: Which is why [actor] lately looked straight at the questioner and said “[that ship isn’t a thing in the canon]” and of course the shitstorm happened. Poor guy.

iamshadow21: Because every time you do, you reinforce that there are ‘forces’ trying to prevent their love.

anon:Nope, I don’t follow anybody that messes up my dash lol.

YES!!

iamshadow21: It’s a delusion, a shared delusion, which makes it stronger because the core believers reinforce it amongst themselves. It’s what happens in cults.

anon: Wow it really is a certifiable delusion isn’t it?
Absolutely.
It is a cult.
Well, that being said, there is no more to be said other than don’t engage 🙂
Thank you.

iamshadow21: Yeah. So be aware, keep out of the mess, and don’t make the mistake of thinking it’s actually about social justice and representation. It’s about false belief.
Thank you for listening to my answers. I really hope it’s helped.

anon: I will remember your words and re-read this thread whenever I’m feeling murderous haha
It really did 🙂

The only reason “coming out” is still even a thing is because it’s presumed that people are straight until they tell us otherwise. “The Other must identify itself, or else it is decieving us” is a fucked up, dangerous idea.

Anon (via victor-the-richter)

Fuck, such a good point!

(via phiasmir)

It also feels very similar to this when revealing you have an invisible or mental disability. People are somtimes angry that they weren’t told right away as though it changes everything about you.

(via ericadawn16)

You are 12. You’re at the library looking for some generic young adult fiction novel about a girl who falls for her best friend. Your dad makes a disgusted face. “This is about lesbians,” he says. The word falls out of his mouth as though it pains him. You check out a different book and cry when you get home, but you aren’t sure why. You learn that this is not a story about you, and if it is, you are disgusting.

You are 15. Your relatives are fawning over your cousin’s new boyfriend. “When will you have a boyfriend?” they ask. You shrug. “Maybe she’s one of those lesbians,” your grandpa says. You don’t say anything. You learn that to find love and acceptance from your family, you need a boyfriend who thinks you are worthy of love and acceptance.

You are 18. Your first boyfriend demands to know why you never want to have sex with him. He tells you that sex is normal and healthy. You learn that something is wrong with you.

You are 13. You’re at a pool party with a relative’s friend’s daughter. “There’s this lesbian in my gym class. It’s so gross,” she says. “Ugh, that’s disgusting,” another girl adds. They ask you, “do you have any lesbians at your school?” You tell them no and they say you are lucky. You learn to stay away from people.

You are 20. You have coffee with a girl and you can’t stop thinking about her for days afterwards. You learn the difference between a new friendship and new feelings for a person.

You are 13. Your mom is watching a movie. You see two girls kiss on screen. You feel butterflies and this sense that you identify with the girls on the screen. Your mom gets up and covers the screen. You learn that if you are like those girls, no one wants to see it.

You are 20. You and your friends are drunk and your ex-boyfriend dares you to make out with your friend. You both agree. You touch her face. It feels soft and warm. Her lips are small and her hands feel soft on your back. You learn the difference between being attracted to someone and recognizing that someone you care about is attractive.

You are 16. You find lesbian porn online. Their eyes look dead and their bodies are positioned in a way that you had never imagined. You learn that liking girls is acceptable if straight men can decide the terms.

You are 20. You are lying next to a beautiful girl and talking about everything. You tell her things that you don’t usually tell anyone. You learn how it feels not to want to go to sleep because you don’t want to miss out on any time with someone.

You are 15. Your parents are talking about a celebrity. Your dad has a grin on his face and says, “her girlfriend says that she’s having the best sex of her life with her!” You learn that being a lesbian is about the kind of sex you have and not how you love.

You are 18. You are in intro to women’s and gender studies. “Not all feminists are lesbians- I love my husband! Most of the feminists on our leadership team are straight! It’s just a stereotype,” the professor exclaims. You learn that lesbianism is something to separate yourself from.

You are 21 and you are kissing a beautiful girl and she’s your girlfriend and you understand why people write songs and make movies and stupid facebook statuses about this and time around you just seems to stop and you could spend forever like this and you learn that there is nothing wrong with you and you are falling in love.

You are 21. And you are okay.

a thing I wrote after arguing with an insensitive dude on facebook all day or Things Other People Taught me about Liking Girls (via squidterritory)

I will never not reblog this.

(via vanguardvivian)

will5nevercome:

My super-conservative devout Mormon parents (and society in general) have made a lot of progress toward acceptance since I first came out 11 years ago, and I’m genuinely grateful and impressed. But at the same time, I still feel a lot of hurt, and anger, and frustration at how far they (and society) still have to go. Sometimes it can be difficult to find balance between those extremes. It’s been mostly anger this week.

I’m a queer woman who has been with my female partner for almost fourteen years, a whole year longer than my mother has been with her second husband. I was BIC, and pretty much all my family on my mother’s side is still in the church, and, yeah. This is really super familiar especially that first one. My mother has denial down to a really fine art. I mean, I can actually have a relationship with her now, rather than the screaming, hostile homophobia from the early years (giving the missionaries my address every time I moved was a classy act, mum), but I just know that even though we never hide that we’re a couple, I think she’s taken the sexual and romantic elements of my partnership and put them in a steel box and welded it shut. Recently (as in, in the last year, when we’re in our thirties and been a couple since age 19), she said to my partner, “You’re a really good friend to Ruth,” which I’ve accepted is the closest I’m ever going to get to her approving of and accepting my relationship, which on the one hand, is better than me having to not take bathroom breaks when I visited in case she cornered my partner and told her all about how wicked she was and how she was ruining my chance of marriage/kids, but on the other… it’s erasure. And like any kind of erasure of identity, it really, really sucks.

actuallyclintbarton:

darren-freakin-criss:

takealookatyourlife:

heroicallyfound:

svetlana-del-rey:

Was she going to slap you because you never in any way made him gay in the actual books, taking zero risks/doing absolutely nothing for gay characters in literature, and only announcing your “authorial intent” afterwards for a cheap shot at looking like an ~ally~

^^^

Gay people are just normal people. We are not told about any of the Hogwarts professors love lives, other than Snape, and it would be completely out of character for Dumbledore to walk around telling everyone about his sexuality.

Did you want her to make him dress in glittery platform boots, a crop top, and decorate his office in rainbow flags to make it more obvious for you? Would that be enough of a stereotype to appease you people? Or what? Please tell me. I’d like to know how you think a gay character is supposed to be portrayed.

And did you miss the Grindelwald chapters in the ‘actual books’? Or was that also not obvious enough for you? Did Dumbledore need to whisper “always” wistfully in order for you to connect that he had romantic feelings for Grindelwald? Maybe you are American and need them to gaze longingly into each others eyes with awkward close ups of their fingers almost grazing each other that Hollywood thinks means ‘true love’. 

It didn’t fit into his relationship to Harry to ever say “I’m gay”, and so it was not stated explicitly (you might have noticed the book was told from Harry Potter’s perspective).

The point is though, that he is a homosexual, well respected, powerful, and very loved wizard- and his sexuality doesn’t matter because no one else thinks it matters. a.k.a. no one care that he loves men, and that is wonderful. 

image

Yeah, but the fact still stands that people try to give JK Rowling LGBT Ally Points for it when she should be getting none.

All it would’ve taken to make this canon was one throwaway line while discussing Grindlewald with Harry, something like “I loved him.” Just casually thrown in there. Easy to miss. AND HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CANONICALLY GAY. Or hell, even have Aberforth mention something about how he thought Albus was sweet on him or something. That would have at least been better than what we got.

I’m sorry but Word of God after the fact, in the case of representation? Means absolutely fucking ZILCH to a great many queer people, myself included.

Also wow glittery platforms? Stereotypes? takealookatyourlife you should examine your url and apply it because that is a really fucking insulting paragraph and it actually makes me want to punch a wall a little bit from how asinine and bigoted it is. NO ONE was asking for stereotypes or even non-stereotyped IN YOUR FACE SEXUALITY. We’re saying that retroactively (from the POV of a reader who has not been privy to your unmentioned worldbuilding) making a character gay does NOT do anything for representation and should not earn you ally cookies.

Also, what I find problematic with Dumbledore being the character she chose to make gay is that he has one relationship, one romance, and his life goes to shit. His lover turns out to be evil, his sister dies, and Dumbledore goes, “woah, shit, okay, CELIBATE FOREVER IS THE ANSWER.” So any positive is vastly outweighed by the negative of Dumbledore being punished and punishing himself for his entire life for falling in love with a boy when he was young. The message queer kids take away from the story of Dumbledore is one of internalised homophobia, self-censorship and heartache, not that of a role model who became the most powerful wizard and was also queer. To become that powerful person, it’s heavily implied that Dumbledore’s chance at a relationship, love and companionship had to be sacrificed. Dumbledore is not a positive gay role model, because to make him gay, JKR had to castrate him, and then, only show him through the eyes of others – the friend who loved him, unrequitedly, from afar, and the tabloid press, who burned him in effigy.

Oh, and further, I have seen a comment floating around that she thought about making Dean/Seamus canon but ‘thought it would detract from the main characters/story’. No. It wouldn’t. A line about them going to the ball together. A kiss when they reunite in the Room of Requirement. A sentence about them standing on Platform 9 ¾ with Junior Thomas-Finnegan, waving him off to school. Any of these things would have taken a few sentences at most, but would have given queer kids representation, and couple of characters they had grown to know and love that they could now identify with. What JKR means when she says ‘detract’ is that she chose, deliberately to a) practice erasure and b) conform to heteronormative standards as to how we portray children before they are of sexual majority, to which I say fuck you.

actuallyclintbarton:

autisticmerrill:

do you ever just read one-star amazon reviews for the hell of it

like this one-star review for “but i’m a cheerleader” (homophobia warning in case)

Read More

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH oh 1-star reviewer you sweet summer child. i was once a teen straight like the heroine of BIAC.

Except for how i realized after actually meeting some queer ladies that i was nothing of the sort and never had been, totally apart from any romantic overtures on their parts.

but sure you can call me a botanist convert.

They really did miss the whole point the movie was trying to make. Ugh, l love BIAC so much, it has so much to say about so many things, it’s so multilayered, and it never dips into the unrelenting tragedy that so many queer films have. I like a happy ending, but a happy ending with so much to say about heteronormativity, gay cures, racism, external and internalised homophobia, political polarisation and religion at the same time just makes me all the happier.