There’s a lot to unpack here.
+the flexibility to get in that pose
+the balance to stay on the skateboard
+the strength to pull back a bowstring with your toes
+the dexterity to hit a target while moving
+the coordination… not hand-eye, but foot-eye
…I don’t know what to do with these things now that I’ve unpacked them…This is the most Hawkeye shit ever.
You may ask “Clint or Kate?” to which my answer would be “Yes.”
Tag: archery
When the Ranger rolls a 1.
The Europeans used what is known as the “Mediterranean draw” to pull their bowstrings back. This uses the first three fingers of the hand. However, the Mongols used their thumbs to pull the string back,
and curled their index and middle fingers over the thumb to support it.
This, they reckoned, was stronger and allowed for a cleaner release.Follow Ultrafacts for more facts
Lars Anderson: A New Level of Archery
Lars Anderson studied historical manuals and rediscovered an ancient and extremely fast way of firing arrows from a bow, making icons like Legolas and Katniss look like slugs.
He trained himself to be able to perform such feats as firing three arrows in less than a second, catching an arrow and firing it back, splitting an oncoming arrow in two, and basically debunking all the lies hollywood has fed us about “ultimate archery skills”
HOLY CRAP historical archery is SO MUCH COOLER than anything out there now.
does this check out? Seems to spend a lot of time talking about how unusually talented this particular guy is.Good grief, this reply grew more than somewhat. It looks more like a magazine article. Have fun!
All opinions are my own, based on library and personal knowledge; if there’s scholarly evidence to the contrary, links please!
…BEGIN…
Things certainly check out for Lars Anderson (or Andersen), who seems to be the Annie Oakley of archery. But someone should have warned him that the “Robin Hood: Men in Tights“ pose…
…looks just as silly in real life…
Maybe that’s why a lot of what I watched made me think of of Annie Oakley again, and circus “trick shooting”…
Really interesting meta commentary by @peternorwood digging into the history of archery (was this style really lost?) and why not everything is as it appears.
More meta worth reading (this time focussing on physics and the mechanics of archery) by Elizabeth Bear: In which I am crabby about viral archery videos
this isn’t a fucking competition, bard.
I…I recognize the joke, but these are totally different kinds of bows, each with its own benefits and suited to its user.
Bard’s using a longbow.
- Longbows are awesome and take a fuckton of regular practice to use, because the muscle strain required to be a longbowman(/woman) actually deforms the arms and back of the user.
- “Bard the Bowman” is still known by that sobriquet even though he’s low status, his family’s life and profession changed when the dragon attacked. Why would he be called that, if not that he’s still in regular practice and people see him using the thing over and over and over?
- Longbows are less-damaged by damp than composites, being made of once single piece of wood rather than layers of material, which is handy if one lives in the middle of a freaking lake.
- The longbow changed the face of warfare in real life, esp. for England. They’re effective killing machines over long distance, even against armored enemies.
- Conclusion: Bard’s a tank-muscled distance shot used to fighting with good sightlines.
Legolas and Tauriel use recurve bows, albeit in different styles.
- Legolas’ looks like a Turkish bow, though I don’t recall seeing him use a thumb draw (which is not mandatory if you’ve got super strong elf-fingers, I guess).
- Tauriel’s looks to be a Scythian composite bow by the shape.
- Composite recurve bows are much easier to use in confined spaces and at odd angles.
- They have been historically used by folks who specialize in archer tricks like multiple arrow shots (a thing we have seen Legolas do).
- Because of the curves, composites pack heavy draw weight (the factor that determines with what force, i.e. how fast and far, the arrow will travel) into limited space.
- Short draw (the distance you have to pull back the arrow to shoot it) means a quicker release time and quicker time to get your next arrow on the string.
- Legolas and Tauriel fight in a forest, not know for long sight lines or easy travel, nor for enemies who can be seen coming. They need weapons that won’t be getting caught on a bush at an inopportune time. Likewise, you see fewer spears and longswords among the elves of the Greenwood.
- Conclusion: Legolas and Tauriel are guerrilla fighters from a heavily-forested territory and their weapons reflect that.
Kili also uses a composite recurve bow.
- For practical purposes, note that Kili has significantly shorter arms than any of the other archers here mentioned. Long draws, like on Bard’s longbow, are not feasible and that means he’s not going to get the power he is capable of producing.
- Dwarves are fucking strong, all right? That wee little bow looks very like the Mongolian horse-bow in size and shape that my friend used with a draw weight of 55 lbs. (I’m not a weakling and I can draw 35 for a decent length of time when in practice). Kili’s could easily be upwards of 75-100 lbs.
- Kili’s a hunter. Likely, his main concern with a bow (when not following his uncle on an inadvisable quest) is the procurement of dinner for his family. To do that with a bow you need to be very quiet or very quick on the draw. Dwarves are not known for being super-quiet, though I believe I remember something about Fili and Kili being better at that than is typical.
- Anything that can kill a deer can probably kill a person (or an orc). That little horse-bow can easily kill or maim.
- Conclusion: Kili is a hunter. He uses a bow that allows for the production of a lot of power at short notice and is suited to his size and strength.
Bigger is not always most effective. Your medieval weaponry rant has concluded for the day, unless someone wants to talk to me about swords.
Hey, copperbadge, you know a lot about Clint Barton. I seem to recall that Clint made the claim at one point that the draw on his bow was, like, 200 pounds or something completely ridiculous like that. Is that true?
I think so. I haven’t read the book personally, at least I don’t think, but according to Wikipedia he had a 250-pound draw on his bow. The citation to go with this was typically, for comics, cryptic:
Gruenwald, Mark; Layton, Bob (1983). Till Death Do Us Part. Hawkeye 1 (4).
That ought to give you a start in looking. I’m no expert but as I understand it, 250lb draw on a bow is rifuckingdiculous.
A lot has been made of the fact that Clint, especially in the film, has really terrible form, but I think that’s pretty accurate — he learned from a carnie, for god’s sake. Imagine how good he’d be if he’d had proper training. 😀
Wasn’t it a plot point at one comic where some villain picked it up and was like ow ow ow fuck ow i can’t make this thing move ow
Yeah, it was the last bit in the last issue of the first Hawkeye four-part miniseries, the one where he meets Mockingbird. He’s used the sonic arrowhead to break them out of the villain’s deathtrap, and the villain is all like “never mind without your bow you’re still just a guy coz I am so villainous I shall kill you with your own weap-OW OW OW” – I think that’s also the bit wehre he mentions the poundage of the draw.
So I’m no expert (The draw on my bow is a pathetic 25lbs for the moment) but the experts at a panel I attended had a lot to say on the subject of draw strength. Apparently there were all of these historical references to English archers being able to fire longbows over a mile and the calculated draw strength necessary for that kind of distance was well over 100lbs, so most historians took it with a grain of salt and a health appreciation for the fact that the French had a reputation to uphold and it looked a lot better on them if they got their asses handed to them by guys who were just too damned far away to stick with a spear okay, geez!
It WAS, however, pretty well documented that it was required by law for all Englishmen to spend at least an hour a day practicing with their bow so you’ve got to imagine that there were some pretty epic arms on those dudes.
Well apparently they found a sunken English ship that just so happened to have a bunch of longbows packed into barrels so tightly that they were completely preserved from the salt water. A bunch of experts restrung a few with period accurate materials and tested the draw strength. I think the average was 130 something pounds (it’s been a year since I was at the panel) but the highest draw was over 200lbs and when they shot it, the arrow landed over a mile away. Thus it was proven that the English Longbowmen were badasses with biceps the size of watermelon and the French weren’t exaggerating for effect (This time at least, I can’t vouch for the rest of history.)
Anyway, bottom line is that a 200lb draw is WAY beyond the capabilities of the modern archer but not impossible, and given Clint’s dedication to his art and the fact that he’s been an archer since he was a child (About the age young English boys would start to learn, I imagine) and practiced religiously… He’d have to make his own bows, or have them specially made, but given his history as a fletcher it is hardly out of the realm of possibility that he would have such a high draw.
… And that is my two cents and half-assed history lesson for the day.

